Tyler and I’s shared/bigamous love for Allen Iverson and Chris Paul got me thinking: “[paul's] like iverson 2.0, but newer and more functional.”
To which Pat responded: “…comparing CP3 to Iverson is awful. They are not similar at all besides the fact that you both enjoy watching them both. Theres no comparison there and i don’t want to hear it anymore.” And because this blog exists to provide commentary that Pat doesn’t want to hear, here it comes!
Even my short-term and short-of-stature comrade Tyler ended up rejecting me on this: “I agree with Pat. Very different styles of basketball. I never meant to compare the 2… I was just pointing out the fact that I used to love to watch AI and now its CP3. Their main similarity is that they are both really quick and really good off the dribble… and they’re small. I think CP3 is more like Steve Nash, with quickness and explosiveness, than he is a version of AI.”
Here’s Iverson on Chris Paul: “He’s my little man … I like his overall game, everything about it. His team has the best record, so I’d give (the MVP) to him. He can handle the ball. He can shoot it. He can finish. He has the ball in his hands pretty much 99 percent of the time, every possession. He’s starting the offense, so it’s tough to deal with.”
Here’s Chris Paul on who his game is patterned after: “I really try to do is take different pages out of different players books. I try to penetrate the lane like Steve Nash, pass like Jason Kidd, and handle the ball like Allen Iverson. Remember, I said ‘try to’. [laughs]“
My point wasn’t that Paul was an Iverson clone, but an evolved version. They obviously don’t play the same style of ball. But the similarity extends beyond being small. And being loved by Tyler and myself.
Iverson was never a pure point guard, he’s part-man/ part-Jordan/ part-pitbull stuffed into a welterweight frame. He’s a one man team, and perhaps that means inherent but beautiful doom against competition as good as you have in the NBA right now.
Paul can do everything that Iverson can do physically. He’s as fast, he’s as deceptive in the open court, he can penetrate as well into the paint, his handle is as good. He shoots a better percentage from close and far, he’s a better passer, he’s better all-around defensively. He’s better at punching Julius Hodge in the danger zone.
Obviously, Paul hasn’t proven whether or not he has Iverson’s oversized heart, undeniable tenacity. He was great but not transcendent in his first trip to the playoffs.
Anchoring the comparison: they both wear number three. I’m a genius.
August 20, 2008 at 3:01 pm |
Do they have similarities? Sure, but so do a lot of players in the NBA.
I mean the physical similarities and attributes are going to draw comparisons, but in terms of style of play, I agree with Pat and Tyler.
Iverson is a point guard in size only. He’s a scorer first and foremost. That’s not to say that he can’t create opportunities for his teamats (Career avg of over 6 assists a game). But those opportunities revolve around him as a scorer first and foremost.
CP3 gets his assists by facillitating his team’s offense. Sometimes it’s the drive and dish game, playing off his offense. Sometimes it’s in transition. Sometimes it’s hitting peja off a screen or with West in a pick and roll. In my opinion, iverson’s game was never that diverse.
The thing about Chris Paul that I am impressed by, is that no matter how fast he is going he almost always appears in control. Part of the joy of watching AI is that he plays with a reckless abandon that is so incredible. That’s not to say Cp3 doesn’t attack the rim, but he doesn’t do it quite the way AI does.
August 20, 2008 at 3:20 pm |
That’s all fair enough, but I think it’s more of a personality and personnel question than anything else. I think Chris Paul could be a long-term better scorer in the NBA than Ivo, and it wouldn’t be that difficult for him. But he can also do everything else than you’d want a guy his size to do but which Ivo seems inherently unwilling to learn to do.
August 20, 2008 at 3:23 pm |
Of course there are only so many short all-stars in the NBA (small-stars, perhaps) and they’re going to merit comparisons with each other, but Kidd is so limited as a scorer and Nash… I have Nash-related issues that I should work out in private.
August 20, 2008 at 3:55 pm |
I also have issues with Nash. I can never decide if Nash’s crazy assist numbers are a product of Phoenix’s incredibly up tempo system, or if their system is a product of Nash’s ability.
In Dallas Nash was a really good point guard. In the years he was a starter he never averaged less than 7.3 assists/gm but he also never averaged more than 8.8. Those are really good assist numbers, but they wouldn’t put Nash in the conversation of the best pg in the league. And it’s not like Dallas was just walking the ball up the court every possession or lacked offensive weapons.
But since he’s gotten to Phoenix he hasn’t averaged less than 10.5. Which is when he started getting MVP awards and consideration. It will be interesting to see what happens now that D’antoni has moved on, and he is playing in a more half court style.
August 20, 2008 at 4:34 pm |
I think part of the reason CP3 has a higher shooting percentage is because he is always looking pass first and defenses know that so they defend him that way. They sag off him and almost invite him to shoot an open 3. Iverson, OTOH, is always looking to score first and defenses know that so they are going out of their way to shut him down…which inflates his assist numbers, IMO, because if he gets double teamed enough he is going to find an open man. So it’s way easier for CP3 to score and Ivo to get assists because the defenses are trying to stop them from doing the opposite. It’s kind of like game theory in econ and also analogous to football in that teams that are run heavy are usually efficient in their pass attempts because defenses are always jamming 8 in the box and pass-heavy teams have a good YPC average because teams are trying to stop the pass…making it easier to run. Yep, I’m good at staying on track. CP3 and Ivo. I think their biggest similarities are their ball handling and quickness…which Paul mentioned when he talked about who he tries to play like. I don’t think he will ever be the pure scorer that Ivo is but I wouldn’t be surprised to see him turn into a better overall player. I think they have very similar skill sets…CP just puts more emphasis on being a pure PG that also has the ability to be a very good scorer while AI’s focus is on scoring but is also really good at distributing the ball and running the point when he decides to.
As far as Nash goes…I don’t know what to think. I like him. There aren’t many small PG/SGs in the NBA I don’t like. I’m not sure if he’s a product of the system or really that good.
August 20, 2008 at 7:45 pm |
OK, lots of things i need to discuss here.
Tyler, learn to hit enter and create new paragraphs. It makes me not want to read your posts when theres such a long paragraph because my feeble mind can’t stay focused that long. The comparison to football was good, i agree with that.
Also for Tyler, Paul already is a better all around player than Iverson. He’s even better than Iverson was the year he took philly to the finals. Iverson has always been overrated because he’s extremely marketable. He’s loud, flashy, small, quick and fans love him. So the nba has sold a ton of nonsense about how much heart he has which apparently you all believe.
Jerry, i wholeheartedly disagree with anyone saying iverson has any part jordan. thats nonsense.
Also to jerry, this post has nothing to do with the title. I was expected some in depth charlotte vs utah analysis.
Nash is a very good offensive PG who couldn’t stop zach from getting to the rim and banking it in from straight away. Some of his #’s are probably inflated because of D’Antonio’s offense but Nash is a great creator and distributor and allowed that offense to flourish.
August 20, 2008 at 8:59 pm |
imo?
August 20, 2008 at 9:02 pm |
why everyone hate nash? hes obvioulsy good at being a pg.
August 20, 2008 at 9:19 pm |
aside from KG, i think iverson has more of jordan’s competitiveness than any other basketball player i’m aware of. that’s the jordan-chunk i was referencing. ivo definitely doesn’t have jordan’s discipline or work ethic.
August 20, 2008 at 9:20 pm |
IMO=in my opinion.